Curse

Aria · Mar 21, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

I definitely agree with VOD..

I am such an advocator of finding a good guild now.. that I'm a bit alarmed.

Honestly though.. out of four BWEs, the March one was by far the best for me. I didn't even get to play as much as I wanted.. and the -entire- reason that I was so much happier during the entire weekend was because of my guild.

It makes an incredible difference to be with people who are caring individuals -- a few are grumpy, of course, but that just adds to their charm.

My best hours were spent in the GH just goofing around and joking with guildmates. Plus, in such an environment, you'll find that most people know what they're doing. Those who don't will learn fast because of the friendly environment.

I absolutely adore this game, but it has always been rather lonely. Random people/teams, I find, for the most part aren't very into the "lets get to know each other and have fun" thing.. and half the time, -I- don't want to talk either.

Guilds are entirely different.

So.. I know I sound like a broken record, but definitely, if you don't have a guild, consider looking at the guilds section of the forums. I found that looking at the guild's website tells quite a bit (much better than nothing) about the people in them -- especially their forums, if they have one.

Luggage · Mar 21, 2005, 08:21 PM // 20:21

One thing about the lack of people talking in "!all" is that once you get a nice pug och guild you'll stick with it and spend all your time in #group(?) or @guild chat - I only ever open !all to trade or if the group I've been running with had to split so I had to look for a new group.

This is sort of unfortunate for the mood of the game tho I must admit. Once "everyone" is in a guild i wonder what will happen to !all

And unless the pick up area is really empty and you have to push on... unless the group repsonds to questions during assembly - quit it and look for another. If you can't find a group at the current mission - port back to the previous one and try to get a good group and help them through it and hopefully you can continue with the new one after that.

If you have a good experience with a group, add the nice people to your friends list and ask them if you can hook up later if the pug has to split for some reason.

Treasure the nice people - they are out there

Wish I knew a way to make the guilded people more talkative tho

Aladdar · Mar 21, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

I believe this game will get better once it's released as far as the community goes. Most people just don't understand called targets, tactics, etc...

Back when I used to play EQ we had great communication, but that game had been out for a long time and for the most part, everyone understood their roles and what they should be doing.

Omnipotent Being · Mar 21, 2005, 08:59 PM // 20:59

I understand where you're coming from FUBAR, but people are like that in all games online lately. We're lucky it's not as bad as in other games, such as Counter-Strike. All people do is talk trash, it's ridiculous! Whenever I see someone asking 'How do I get to the Tomb of Primeval Kings' or simliar questions, I tell them, but sometimes people don't know the answers. I often see people chatting casually, but most are interested in advancing in the game.

Nascent · Mar 21, 2005, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Personally I think it's because of just how faceless the internet really is. I wouldn't dare talk the way some people do online to their face, its the quickest way to get a mouth full of fist >_>.

It's likely not going to get any better either, this is what happens when you have a wide age group of people playing. Best thing I guess is just if you run into a good group of people cling to them and never let go.

Or we could make some of list, like a master names list of everyone who wants to quest as a co-operative team that converses...or somesuch.

But I totally understand what you're saying FUBAR, try playing Tribes Vengenace, a game that relies solely on co-operation with a group of people that will not do as you say, listen, or even talk. that drove the game into the ground so quick for me. At least its good to know there's dozens here who wish the same thing you do. We'll all be fine in the end :P

Once people get sick of randomly trading their belongings to the one willing the part the most gold it should improve some, but only because they'll either leave, or actually begin to better understand the game.

Bigfoot · Mar 21, 2005, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Fubar, you need some friends. One of the great things about this game is being able to form a guild and play with those people as a team. If you are upset with the quality of the people on your team, start a guild and recruit some friends that can work as a team. Most of the people on the BWE are just seeing the game for the first time, experimenting with things and learning where things are.

Hirum · Mar 21, 2005, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Yeah, im an old Anarchy Online player, which is a small, mostly european game. The community is mostly just people running around shit talking each other, or selling items. Its relaxing not to have to deal with that.

I was rather happy with World of Warcrafts setting that doesnt allow you to talk to opposing faction, that takes out tons and tons of potty mouth text, and just random bullshit that one generally has to deal with in an online community.

Once this game gets rolling, people start finding out the value of items, people start realizing who the eletist are, and who are the casual gamers, you will have all of the chit chat you want.

Nik The Barbarian · Mar 21, 2005, 10:37 PM // 22:37

I don't think that the community probelm is limited to GW. I've seen a decline in community of EVERY online game I've played over time. Back in the days where only smart people played mmoRPGs (not the power leveling noobs, but the RPG fans), community was great. Back in June of 1999, I found a free online game of 500 people called Mercenaries of Astonia. It came out in 1998, but the community had developed nicely. People were always willing to help new players, general chatting was cool, stuff like that. Then all of a sudden, something happened. People joined who had no intention of enjoying the ride towards the top but instead wanted to look down on those from the top. Sarcasim took over, staff members got real strict, no one was helping anymore. No chatting. The people who have been there since the beginning left, and the community completely crumbled. The game was shut down in 2003.

It is apparent that many people are playing GW just to be dominant. As the game progresses, it will get worse, not better, unless people go out of their way now to help.

The fact a game is free has a major impact on community. If anyone has ever played T4C, you know that the p2p servers have better community than the free servers.

GW will be fine though since people care about the community.

Loviatar · Mar 21, 2005, 10:46 PM // 22:46

QUESTION FOR EXPERTS (i have never tried it so i dont know)

can you go back and redo a mission after you have completed it once or does it give you a this mission has been done message

if you can i was thinking of going back to the early missions on a fairly regular basis and acting as a guide for people who have been killed for the xxx time trying it

not doing it for them but giving a bit of a boost if needed

Luggage · Mar 21, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Of course you can do the missions again

You will not get the exp for finishing it tho.

So it's perfect time to start working on that bonus mission you skipped last time you played the mission.

(unless you are just farming drakes in kryta...)

Loviatar · Mar 22, 2005, 12:21 AM // 00:21

i thank you

i just wanted to make sure i could get in with a group for a rerun but thought too late of course you can because the ones you want to help havent done it yet

i assume since i would be considerably higher level i would syphon off less exp from them

Jugalator · Mar 22, 2005, 12:42 AM // 00:42

From my BWE experiences this weekend, I wouldn't really say pickup groups are that horrible. In the first few missions, yes they can be, but I think many of those parties are made up of inexperienced players. I hope so too.

However, this seems to sort itself out after the first three, four missions or so, since pretty soon you face missions you must team play in to win, and the only players winning are those who team played good enough. Already when I was starting to get to the mountaineous areas in this BWE I was seeing a dramatic difference in how people played. We were laughing and having fun at picking torch carriers, LOL'ed at being smashed by catapult blasts and having exploding barrels dropped by people not knowing what it did and me shouting "run!", and basically every single one of us six party members had a great time. One of them kept saying "oh man, I can't wait for this great game to be released!" and people in our party started discussing which real life school they had been studying in after realizing they were from the same city. It was really an uplifting experience after playing, say, the Northern Wall with people until giving up and just playing with mercenaries.

So this game actually being unusually HARD (to players not teamplaying well it's pretty much gaming hell) for today's games, may actually save it quite well at least. If you compare to e.g. WoW where the "toughness" may come from finding enough hours to play on per day to advance to level 32.

If one is guildless it will of course help a lot to get in contact with a fairly large GW guild/community. A player seeking for guild membership can check in the Guild Auditorium here for good guilds with free spots, and with the guild cap at 100, a whole lot of friendly people can get together for both PvE and PvP.

But yes, with a game with no fees like this, I'm preparing for a similar community in general as the one in Diablo II -- not exactly heaven to role players. However, I kept playing Diablo II for very long as I still enjoyed the game for what it was and what the community I'm member of was. Guild Wars also has the same advantage as Diablo II in that you play PvE in instanced areas. And in PvP I'm not really caring too much for guilds with bad morale. Yes they can be annoying if they win and act arrogant, but the fun of beating some extremely bad losers can make up for it.

I remember once that we did that and I could almost hear them throwing their keyboards in the walls; they had taken out their victory and started insulting us in advance and all...

thaumaturge · Mar 22, 2005, 12:59 AM // 00:59

I have to completely disagree with there being problems with the community. Of course this was my first weekend and really first online RPG apart from Diablo 1 and 2.

I saw nearly everybody having a good time, the only negative words were said when people died and were not directed at anyone but rather themselves or monsters

.

Everybody seemed to enjoy it. From my limited experience in the gladiators arena even the losers would say gg and not get pissed. Sometimes it's hard to get a group together to quest but it usually doesn't take too long. I suspect a lot of this is because less people are playing during beta and a lot of people are still learning stuff out. Not once did I get abused or bad mouthed. Most of the parties I joined communicated and did well, with some not talking too much.

I guess I've played a lot of FPS games so I am used to extreme abuse so maybe I just didn't spot the minor things but I really saw nothing offensive at all. Mostly just jokes and such.

Kiwi · Mar 22, 2005, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Negative words? Death?

No no no, death is no biggie. It's like someone taking some candy away from me and then I go beat the crap out of them and getting it back.

Candy being EXP.

cce · Mar 22, 2005, 01:14 AM // 01:14

I think the most difficult thing for people to do is be humble. If you are a newbie, people fail to
announce what they know or don't know; as a result, they make beginner mistakes that they
didn't have to make. If you are experienced, people often rush ahead to the next goal and
fail to explain why they are doing something. The result of mis-communication creates
a bad atmosphere.

Perhaps the game logic itself can help 'encourage' people to behave?

- docked people xp/loot points if they rush too far ahead
- docked people xp/loot points if they attack a monster when one of
their spell casters were still recharging mana
- docked people loot points if they die and they started the brawl,
if you die it is usually your fault for not planning /w team mates
- seriously docked if during a fight, you attack a monster that isn't
already in the brawl, or moved far enough away from the brawl that
you brought in another attacking group

Thoughts? These should be codeable. The goal is to make the game
extremely un-profitable if you are a lone-wolf in a pack.

neoflame · Mar 22, 2005, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by cce

- docked people xp/loot points if they attack a monster when one of their spell casters were still recharging mana

It's a bit of a waste of time to wait for every caster to fully recharge, especially when you've still got enough members to take down whatever mob you're charging, and your recharging casters are almost done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cce

- docked people loot points if they die and they started the brawl, if you die it is usually your fault for not planning /w team mates

That seems kind of draconian, especially since it's not always the case, and permanent death penalites aren't particularly GW-ish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cce

- seriously docked if during a fight, you attack a monster that isn't already in the brawl, or moved far enough away from the brawl that you brought in another attacking group

Accidents happen. Plus, what if you're trying to lure in enemies for, say, an AoE? Or if your team is just about finished with the old group, and you've got timed enchantments running so you want to take on the next one fairly quickly?

Loviatar · Mar 22, 2005, 01:35 AM // 01:35

no way

a person that far off will get dumped fast and often

and the more people get experience the fasted the jerks will be dumped

we dont need big brother forcing us to play together in the officially approved manner

HotSnack · Mar 22, 2005, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEATH AT THE DOOR

Me: "Okay, let's rush them!"
Him: "No, let the White Mantles fight them."
*White mantles get killed*
Me: "Lets rush them fast!"
Him: "No, let the Zombie Warlock raise dead"
Me: "And then what?"
Him: "We'll wait untill the bone minions die."
OR
Me: "Let's go through Drakes!"
They: "no i want to get to lions arch fast"
*We get to the bridge and there's a bunch of undeads*
They: "lets wait"
*The undead pass*
They: "let the white mantles fight them"
*The undead kill the crucial NPC and we all fail the quest.

In a nutshell, the beta weekend left me pondering whether I really want a game like Guild Wars. I did eventually find a good party and finished the quest but I had no wish to play GW after. Guild Wars is a great game with one con. Sadly, this disadvantage cannot be fixed by a patch.

It took me 7 tries to complete Gates of Kryta (they made that mission so hard this BWE), as such, I can sympathise with anyone who would only want to try and complete the mission in order to get to LA, rather than risking their lives farming Drakes.

I also use the 'let the undead fight the mantle first' tactic, and it always works for me. Why put a strain on your monk players healing you, while instead you can all focus your attention attacking the undead while they're distracted? (The healer can focus heal the important npc, afterall). Again, I also disagree about not letting minions die before an attack. There's nothing more annoying than being zerged by minions, and unless you have an elementalist on your party raining Firestorm on them, then letting them die out naturally is perhaps the best way in dealing with them.

Weezer_Blue · Mar 22, 2005, 01:45 AM // 01:45

yeah I notice this stuff too... but you can't blame the game. people are just assholes in general.

Lews · Mar 22, 2005, 01:51 AM // 01:51

I got through Gates Of Kryta with a good group, and then proceeded to play through missions and such until I reached the Wilds ( actually with the same group). I had fun, everyone did their part, no one ran ahead or acted stupid. I leveled up once on it, we got some good loot.

I tried out some of the PvP areas. I have to say that I actually did get replies from people with 'GG' after words, but that was seldom. Mostly I just got "You guys suck, just wait till next time," or "I will never die! **** ***** ****** etc." I'll try not to go back there, thank you very much.

I was having fun, met a few new people. Hooked up with some old friends, and got totally stuck on the Wilds ( is it harder now?).

Then another friend asked me to go back to Gates of Kryta with them. I knew them, and respected them, so I went along. They were the only mature person in the group. The rest of the 'group' ran ahead, the monks never healed, the warriors stayed in the back " I can't risk a high DP you noob."
I wanted to go through the drakes, and they said "nah, its suicide, just some xp, lets go around them and then find some npc's to help us out."

For the first time I wondered about actually using my 'Res' Signet, and when I finally used it, it was only for my friend. I enjoyed the company of my friend, but the rest of the people in the group acted badly. Mostly they were just assholes, indeed.

By the way, Gwen killing people with fire was rather good.

Lews

Oh, and edit, yes I have made mistakes before as well, such as running ahead( never leave auto-run on and then awnser the phone, ha ) but I always appolagized, not just said "wats ur problem ya noob, I am l33t resUr3cT m3 n I wiN."